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Posted: May/21/2008 5:13 AM PST
Look what I found, I am in glee over it. Wanted to share it with you all as I will be going the store right now to buy the 15% 20 liter of this Vingear. I have some that is 80% but have not used it yet as it is a dangerous thing it can eat right thru to your bones, so I wanted to dilute it with water, may not have to at this time. I will however use it directly on the ivy roots it is bound to kill them for sure. But I will be using this other one
The source is
[b]as an Organic Weed Killer
Organic Weed Killers
Exactly what is available to organic gardeners for killing weeds?
Scythe, a fatty acid-based, non-selective contact herbicide that disrupts the cellular structure of the plant;
Neem Oil for killing aphids; and
Burn Out Weed and Grass Killer: also an acid-based weed killer made of vinegar and lemon juice.
You can investigate these products, vinegar as a weed treatment, and organic farming rules further on the Web at:
by Patricia Diaz, from the July 2002 Newsletter
A recent Lewiston Tribune article has sparked a lot of local interest in the promise of vinegar as an herbicide. Yes, even regular household vinegar works! Since the number of organic products available for killing unwanted weeds is extremely limited, the vinegar solution is a most welcome addition.
Vinegar has long been used in cooking, cleaning, and for a host of other applications (haven't you ever gotten that "forward" on the internet?) and its potential use as an herbicide is exciting. Vinegar can be produced naturally by decomposing plant products under anaerobic conditions. Household vinegar is usually made from wine (grapes), cider (apples), or malt (grain). The sugars in these plant products are converted into alcohol and carbon dioxide through fermentation. This oxidative process forms vinegar.
Regular household vinegar is a 5% acetic acid concentration. While this works on some weeds, a greater concentration is needed for other or more mature weeds. By distilling, a 15% concentration can be obtained, and a 30% concentration can be obtained by freeze evaporation. These concentrated acetic acids, if they are derived from plant sources and not from chemicals, are acceptable for agricultural use by the organic community.
Acetic acid readily degrades in water (so I wouldn't spray right before an expected rainstorm) and doesn't bioaccumulate. Vinegar will decrease the pH of the soil somewhat, but within 48 hours the pH balance is back to its original state. It is also a biodegradable product.
Currently, research is being conducted at Beltsville, Maryland, at the USDA site to determine the efficacy of vinegar for controlling weeds. I conversed via email with John R. Teasdale in Beltsville, who very kindly sent me the URL of a Web site where we can all keep abreast of the latest developments in this field: http://www.barc.usda.gov/anri/sasl/vinegar.html.
I also talked with local Cooperative Extension specialists at both the U of I and WSU to determine if there was any research being conducted locally into this exciting development. Carol Miles, from WSU Vancouver, said that WSU is unable to recommend something as an herbicide unless it has herbicide information on the label–which vinegar does not–plus she hadn't seen this research yet. She did, however, recommend Scythe, an all-organic herbicide, as something organic gardeners could use, as well as using plastic with mulch (irrigating under the plastic). Tim Prather, from UI, is conversant with this new research and recommended that whoever starts using vinegar in an organic garden needs to be aware of the source of the vinegar. Otherwise, the organic certification could be compromised. He said that research is being conducted in California using vinegar and he's the one who recommended contacting John Teasdale, a long-time researcher in sustainable issues. He also said that you could use a surfactant, such as Ivory soap, to increase coverage ability of vinegar.
The research conducted so far using vinegar shows that vinegar can kill several weed species at different growth stages. Using 10, 15 or 20% acetic acid concentrations, field researchers had an 80-100% kill rate of selected weeds, including giant foxtail up to 3" tall, common lambsquarter up to 5 inches, smooth pigweed up to 6 inches, and velvetleaf up to 9 inches. Using household vinegar (5%) produced variable results but seemed to be the most effective on Canada thistle where a 100% kill rate of the top growth was achieved. Re-growth from the roots, however, continued. Tim Prather, from UI, stated that you could achieve better results by spraying very small plants, 2-6 leaves. Continue spraying at two-week intervals. He's found that the maximum stage for the best kill-rate is the 4-leaf stage.
The organic vinegar that these researchers used was from Burns-Philip Food Inc. and Heinz USA (concentrations ranging from 5-30%), as well as from Knouse Foods (14% concentration).
Of course I couldn't write this without trying it myself, so out I went with my spray bottle and white distilled vinegar (probably not organic but I was clear out in a field spraying and marking the weeds). I sprayed the weeds in late morning (for no particular reason, that's just when I did it) and checked late that afternoon. And I had some really pleasant surprises! I sprayed two sizes of Canada thistle (11" and 4") and the vinegar killed all the top growth; I sprayed Dalmatian toadflax and bracken fern, both noxious weeds out our way, and the vinegar didn't faze them in the least. I also sprayed both broadleaf plantain and English plantain, sizes 2" and 5" and the vinegar killed them dead. Our little schnauzer was allergic to English plantain and when I think of all the hours I spent digging those up when I could have been leisurely spraying vinegar, oh my. . . I don't have any yellow star thistle close by to test, but wouldn't it be wonderful if vinegar killed that too?
Another bit of research conducted was done on cornfields: spot spraying with 20% concentration killed 80-100% of weeds without harming the corn. This is an area where the scientists say they are actively continuing to do more research.
I talked with Kirk Arrasmith of Central Stores at WSU and they do have a couple of sizes (2.5 liter and 500 ml) of the higher concentrations of acetic acid. These aren't organic, however, but made for industrial use. But if you're interested in killing weeds around the driveway, sidewalk, etc. and just don't like chemicals, these will work fine. Just go to Central Stores on Grimes Way, pay for your product, get your receipt, and then proceed to Chemical Stores. They'll give you directions at Central Stores. Val, at WSU's Food Science and Human Nutrition, was very helpful in giving me contact numbers for the above-mentioned food companies: Knouse, at 717-677-8181; and Burn-Philip Foods at 800-443-1067. I would suspect that as this research progresses the availability of the higher concentrations of organic acetic acid will increase. I emailed Heinz USA about obtaining the higher concentrations of acetic acid but at press time I hadn't heard from anyone.
Pat Diaz lives on 6 acres in the woods near Dworshak Reservoir with her husband, Tom, and newly adopted schnauzer, Gunther. With all the rain and then the sun, the potatoes, tomatoes, and squashes are going nuts! © Copyright on articles, recipes and images are jointly held by the Moscow Food Co-op
and the respective contributors, except were otherwise noted. Return to Resource Page
Location: Lancaster, SC
Posted: May/21/2008 5:23 AM PST
I did the vinegar thing too one year, but a week later there were new weeds there to replace them. Arghhh! That's why I mulch with pine straw.
Posted: May/21/2008 5:38 AM PST
Originally posted by wittI did the vinegar thing too one year, but a week later there were new weeds there to replace them. Arghhh! That's why I mulch with pine straw.
What strength did you use? apparently you have to use more than one application, I have a huge spray can for spraying so I will be armed with my WMD'S in one and a popsicle in the next , did youuse a strong vinegar or ordinary kitchen grade of 5%?
Location: Lancaster, SC
Posted: May/22/2008 3:53 AM PST
It was not the normal household vinegar, but I can't remember now what the strength was. I'm sure it works great, but it's not a pre-emergent, I don't think. The seeds just pop up, but I guess that if you keep at it, you'll eliminate them eventually! I hope so!
Location: Westlake, La
Posted: May/22/2008 6:59 AM PST
I have used vinegar, too. And it is a quick fix to weed kill-however-it is not selective, will kill whatever vegetation it touches, and only kills the tops, not the roots, so they weed will come back.
Posted: May/25/2008 12:24 PM PST
Originally posted by carolyncat353I have used vinegar, too. And it is a quick fix to weed kill-however-it is not selective, will kill whatever vegetation it touches, and only kills the tops, not the roots, so they weed will come back.
Well I tried 20 liters of 15% acid vinegar yesterday, and guess what? I killed just about everything I sprayed and I used the nozzle to tap into the roots so it will kill from the root. I killed a variety of very hard to get rid of weeds, today I came back and I am like where are my weeds? They are all now the color of the earth, even tried it on the stubborn lawn grass, it nicked that one as well. So I will be buying like 40 literes each week and keeping it on hand, soon as I see the suckers pop up I will hack them.
Big problem is this, the neighbors are really HORRIBLE, their whole property is weed infested, they never mow or do anything so you can imagine all the seeds will keep coming right back in my property. I guess the problem can be diminished if you never let your weeds bolt, if you nick them before that, you can reduce the weeds to some point. Grass weeds are a monster I tell you. All I will do is keep at it, and anythign that annoys me and becomes troublesome, I will cut it down and put something more hardy in place.